HA arcade?
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07:26:44, 12.12.17

#IckoFixRandom

Team with a 17 year old juniors going through to the final of the World League. Team great Britain without a coach goes to the finals of the World Cup. The results of the World Cup U20 to defies analysis. Weak teams win strong, conceding 100 AI on the line. It's not serious. No influence of the coach on the result. Hockey Manager turned into the arcade. It's really shitty. Too many random. Many active managers in Russia stopped playing because of this. Need fix random.

smiler
18:34:44, 15.12.17

When did it happen 17 years youngsters playing final of the World League? I missed that.

National both levels lot of randomness but I think it is good. The AI is not the only factor to mention, team mood, form, match importance, attributes distribution, not working or working line chemistry, etc. If you have a line with poor attribute distribution yes they can lose match even they have much higher AI.

No influence by coach? Picking players, managing what to train, making line-up, setting tatic points, setting tactic team mood etc.

The randomness is totally normal some managers would like to be more random as you have no chance to make something big if you buy for example top U20 players , in real life if you make a team from the best juniors from the world you could easily win any league maybe even Stanley Cup.

I can't agree.

18:29:58, 16.12.17

Yes, sorry, NCHC 70 of the season.

I disagree that the weaker teams should have a chance to beat the powerful at the expense of randomness. Should win the strongest. If the team can't afford the best players, so there is room for improvement. HA has a slow gameplay. Time invested in team development must have meaning. Undue influence randomness kills the desire to play.

The growth of players from scratch to spend 1.5-2 years real life and then you top players 450-500 AI, lose important matches the team 350-400 AI. This is nonsense.

Ice Shaman
20:51:53, 16.12.17

In the NHL, the best teams in history only won 75% of their games (95-96 red wings). Since the introduction of the 16-team playoff format, the best team of the regular season is only twice as likely to advance to the cup compared to pure luck (25% compared to 12.5% or 1 in 8). And an analysis of the major north American sports leagues shows that hockey is the sport with the greatest influence of luck. https://www.vox.com/videos/2017/6/5/15740632/luck-skill-sports

Although I hate it as much as the next person when I seem to lose to luck as opposed to choices I've made in planning and execution, I find the level of luck fairly appropriate in HA.

If anything, the most dominant teams are almost too dominant (eg any time a team wins more than 25 regular season games). I suspect that has more to do with skill than anything - anyone who thinks just having the max AI team is the winning formula is sadly mistaken.

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smiler
21:18:03, 16.12.17

Met 18:29:58, 16.12.17 Yes, sorry, NCHC 70 of the season.

So Khabar played all matches JUST with 17 years old players? Didnt he had at least one superior line? Any chance of screen of the matches, to see exact squads please?

Well if you want to make results purely by AI, so team with higher AI always wins then it would be real arcade. Again there is secrecy in the correct AI distribution and only icko knows how the match engine works plus there is surely some kind of randomness but again there is not such randomness if you have a team consists from 17yo players you can hardly achieve anything than rock bottom of the league table and this is in my opinion wrong.

Look at NHL there are many young players leaders in their team. If you would put them together they would maybe have a chance to win Stanley Cup but in terms of HA they would be surely even out of playoff.

Simply superior 17 year old player 100/max with current AI like 90 is going to be superior player with AI 550+ so he has skill already he is only missing experiences but in real life he would be one of the best player in his team. Here he is nothing. In real life if we would look at these player at age 20 many of them are team leaders, best scorers, defenders, goalkeepers .. leading the stats, beating real life veterans like Jagr etc. but again here they are nothing, it is impossible on HA to have best player in a team 17 yo youngster.

This was my point. If there would be some real randomness there should be a chance to promote a team with full team of the best 17-20yo players or be the best league scorer at age 18, or the best stats by goalie etc.

If you want make this game to be decided just by AI then I would call it arcade , if you have almost same leagues by top AI and in one league team with AI is 1st and in second league is 6th, it is not random, it is good engine. If you would have both teams on 1st or 6th place then it is arcade.

Arcade is something certain , there are lot of games with arcade engine and I think most of us here do not want it. It eliminates skill and luck. Both things you need4

18:55:39, 18.12.17

It's a game. It's not real hockey. Here play numbers and formulas.

HA can go by adding new parameters and increase the influence of the coach on the result. Why increase the impact of randomness? It is not correct.

There are many ideas offered on the forums. Why not make one big good update that will refresh the game?
Moreover, in 2018 the game for 15 years.

Can increase the effect of tactical points.
Can remove the intuitive tactics. To accelerate teamwork fives. A little change profiles. This frees coaches from the trap of the three tactics.

It is also worth to improve the World Cup. Need transfer % teamwork tactics of the clubs. This will increase the tactical flexibility of the teams.

To add more statistics. The player champion of the world, but nobody knows about it ) Goalies to add shootout statistics.

We are still waiting for the team-C =)

Icko, come on, do us a gift for the New year or birthday HA =)

19:07:32, 18.12.17

smiler

I don't want teams won only due to the high AI. There is AI and there is a quality player, his skills. I want teams won those matches, where must win. Matches where the difference between teams is huge.

Now the range of randomness is too large. Don't know what to expect from each new match. We must do all adequately.

Herbert Knox
22:29:32, 18.12.17

good managers beats good teams :-)

smiler
22:46:44, 18.12.17

I get your facts Met, I have nothing against them it would be surely great to have these updates you have mentioned just simply must win never works even in reality. When I hear term must win I already know it is going to be very interesting process or even the outcome. Just look at any competition during the weekend and you will see so many failures of must winners in any sport. I even remember Olympic Games and shooting discipline in final when the guy just needed to hit anything to grab gold and he hit enemy shooting range ...

Luck plays vital role in our lives and even this is just a game there should be luck, random, otherwise it would be boring arcade where you would buy the best players and you would know you even anything you can.

I would agree there is maybe too much randomness on international level (World Championships) but still just follow ice-hockey championship junior or senior both have some dogs to shine and favourites to burn every year.

I would rather see Icko to focus on many different things than match engine & randomness.

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islander1
14:45:00, 19.12.17

Met 07:26:44, 12.12.17 #IckoFixRandom

Team with a 17 year old juniors going through to the final of the World League. Team great Britain without a coach goes to the finals of the World Cup. The results of the World Cup U20 to defies analysis. Weak teams win strong, conceding 100 AI on the line. It's not serious. No influence of the coach on the result. Hockey Manager turned into the arcade. It's really shitty. Too many random. Many active managers in Russia stopped playing because of this. Need fix random.




I will say as a former USA U20 manager myself that I really like the setup in leagues below the top. There's definitely more luck involved in the top league. A couple of key first line injuries for a specific game early on in the season can literally sabotage your campaign.

However, I could say the same about the playoffs in league play. 2 out of 3 is a poor sample size for a playoff series, where one RNG result can lose you a series. I've properly managed a lot of playoff games where I had all the tactical advantages, 99% motivation, home match, dominated the play, and still lost. I have also as early as last season literally won a series playing it all on low as I was going for the NC.

This is the way its always been, though. I would suspect if you really asked folks who quit over the game engine, it would be because of THIS, not some meaningless NT results.
League play (30 games) always produces the best team over that time. Even in close results, 30 games is a really big sample size.

islander1
14:49:49, 19.12.17

side note: Although this is season 72, not 70, I just compared AI of Russia and Kazakhstan. Using the 10th highest AI player as a reasonable benchmark, Russia has only a 12 AI advantage, or about 7%, over Kazakhstan.

Again, I don't have access to the rosters at the time of the Cup final, but Met are you really telling me it was dramatically different?

smiler
19:21:31, 19.12.17

islander1 14:45:00, 19.12.17 Met 07:26:44, 12.12.17 I will say as a former USA U20 manager myself that I really like the setup in leagues below the top. There's definitely more luck involved in the top league

I think it is because the randomness (luck) factor is higher with higher AI. Simply more better teams you have the less predictable the outcome is.

If you have teams with average AI 200 and 300 , the team with AI 300 will win more games against the oponnent than team with AI 400 against team with AI 300.
That's why lower leagues are more predictable because there is bigger spread of AI , you have there teams with avg. AI under 150 (youth teams) and teams full of veterans with AI 350+

Btw. about randomness on national level (World championships) it is caused by Icko to eliminate draws from the results. It used to be possible to end a game as a draw and picking point from a game. Now you can take two or zero points. I think this is why the randomness rised.


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