Managers who lie about Q/P/L
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thegreat8
18:27:52, 28.07.18

And as mentioned above by Nevo you can only scout loyalty as +? or -? so you have to rely on a managers word in that sense. There's a big difference between a +3 and +1 or a -3 and -1...

tychaeus
03:34:57, 29.07.18

thegreat8 18:27:52, 28.07.18 And as mentioned above by Nevo you can only scout loyalty as +? or -? so you have to rely on a managers word in that sense. There's a big difference between a +3 and +1 or a -3 and -1...

I confess I don't have a lot of sympathy in this situation. I always scout the players I'm interested in purchasing and have never asked for info from the seller. I actually consider purchasing older youth to mitigate the lack of Loyalty knowledge you get from scouting 17 year old players.

The in game mechanic is there and if you choose not to avail yourself of it you are implicitly accepting this risk. If you don't want to take the risk and aren't willing to accept the consequences, don't put yourself in that position.

thegreat8
20:05:45, 29.07.18

Ok, great. You stick with your strategy and I will stick with mine and hopefully kick your butt again in I.1 :)

Anyways, I'm open for ideas on how to circumvent the problem.

smiler
09:43:21, 31.07.18

If it approves mod you can make sticky topic and write just names of the manager with a link and ID (due to his probable change of nickname). Mod should keep it clean like deleting irelevant chit-chat and copying the names from posts to the first post so you can just come into the the topic use ctrl+f for desired nickname and you have the answer. Also depends if people will share these liers but liers who lies regularly will be surely spotted.

The topic could be sticky in forum Transfers.

I think this is the easist way how to share liers.

smiler
09:50:48, 31.07.18

It would be better to also post ID in the first post as I wrote somebody could change the nickname after that.

Simply I would see this could work like posting:

thegreat8, 340387, https://www.hockeyarena.net/cs/index.php?p=manager_manager_info.php&id=340387

He lied me about player XXXYY and his loyalty +3 but he has +1 instead.

---
And first post should be updated and we would have here just

Last update: 31.07.2018

thegreat8, 340387, https://www.hockeyarena.net/cs/index.php?p=manager_manager_info.php&id=340387
tychaeus, 14254, https://www.hockeyarena.net/en/index.php?p=manager_manager_info.php&id=14254

...

Or you can make your rules how to post it, format it etc. You only need this to be approved to be sticky in forum Transfers and active mod to update the first page at least once per few days.

Сообщение удалено

11:07:55, 31.07.18

I still believe this is a non issue.

How can I tell who is right when you claim that a manager has lied? It is most likely a case of his word against yours ...

Once proven how long should a managers name in this liartopic?
And do you really think that other managers will check this topic? I certainly wouldn't.

15:31:11, 31.07.18

it's all about the nature of man ... if someone needs to deceive in the game, such a person is not normal

smiler
16:09:02, 31.07.18

William 11:07:55, 31.07.18 I still believe this is a non issue.

How can I tell who is right when you claim that a manager has lied? It is most likely a case of his word against yours ...

Once proven how long should a managers name in this liartopic?
And do you really think that other managers will check this topic? I certainly wouldn't.


It sounds like you already lide once :) No hard feelings, man.

I agree it has to be proven and most of these cheats are made in two ways
1) Transfers topic - even if you delete the post, the topic stays. If you make a screenshot before he deletes the post who would you believe? Person who has topic in transfer form but deleted post , for what reason ?! or people who claimed he was cheated as has a screenshot showing a player with advertised fake numbers. I think it is clear.

2) You ask a manager in mail and he sends you mail with fake numbers. Even the sender deletes the mail, it is still available to receiver and there is a function to publish the mail to mods (if not, correct me please).

Other ways like lied on facebook , other 3rd party forum etc. this would not count. I agree these ways could be morelikely cheat against honest seller.

Would you accept these two ways of proven liers? I think most of managers would approve it. I

Once proven cheater stays always cheater. Well little bit hard to compare but in your words when you murder someone you should not have it in a record for the rest of our life? If you make fraud in real life it goes with you for the rest of life.
if you cheat, you should think of consequences. Why should be a pardon then?

Still it is then just on buyer if he see some ex-cheater if is going to trust him or not.

About the topic yes I think lot of managers would check it. It depends what type of players you buy. But I believe it might go very useful for managers who care about loyalty as written above there is no way how to reveal exact + or - loyalty.

If this would be already applied it would help also sellers and me too because in the past I sold lot of L+3 players and once I was selling again +3l player and it was at the moment there were few liers with supposed +3l players and people were cheated and it was spread out so when I advertised this player on the transfer forum I mostly received mails like "make a screenshot and video" or "how can I trust you" and at the end I had to lower the price because these stupid liers.

If there is a player +3 loyalty and you make more people to trust you the price is much higher than +2 or even +1 and so on. This rule and topic would help also honest sellers and liers would stop get extra money for fake players.

Currently I am not active on the market but as I read this topic I remeber the past and I think this solution is quite easy and handy. It does not mean all managers will use it or find it useful but this is a game, community game, it is wrong to close eyes about bad things which are going here.

smiler
16:24:44, 31.07.18

As I am thinking about this topic I think it would be enough to make a rule not to lie about Loyalty (L). It is true that sometimes when you need to sell a player which shows better number than he has many managers sends you right away a mail and asking you about correct numbers Q/P/L. It is a true that in real life when you buy a player you do not know if he is not going to be injured, get bad form and lose interest in hockey = simply you do know how long will he play or how useful he will be = Quality (Q) and potential (P). But everytime when you are buying a player you already sign a contract how many seasons he surely spends with you = Loaylty (L).

So it is true it is a bit annyoing and on the other hand unfair for a seller when buyer does not scout a player on his own and expect right away to know all numbers and if you do not reply him, he is supposing he shows worse numbers than in realty and sometimes you just do not have to be active, do not log in due to busy time and no free time and interested managers think you are hiding or not logging due to the fake players on the market.

So to be fair to both sides, I agree lieing about Q and P should not be punishable. Because buyer can easily find out real numbers of Q and P. But loyalty is a real factor which should be known to a buyer because sometimes it makes maybe even more than 50 % of the price of the player and especially if there is +3 and -3 loyalty.

So I would go for a rule to forbid lies about L or think a way how to publish loyalty to a buyer. If game developer would be active there could be some reveal button and you could reveal real numbers of such a player. I know loalty is hidden on purpose because of UFA market but there should be really something done about loyalty.

Q and P, everybody can scout the real numbers, loalty is still the issue.

thegreat8
01:55:35, 01.08.18

Lots of good points smiler.

And for those asking how could you prove he lied:

You can already get fined/banned for mail and discussion post. So obviously the mods have access to look at these. Obviously it would have to be reported promptly but the mod could just compare the Q/P/L to the mail/post. Fine the manager and post it for all to see. Not that complicated.


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