Idea: instant chemistry & remove intuitive
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refused
20:10:59, 26.10.18

Idea: instant chemistry & remove intuitive

Right now if you look at the national teams hardly no one even bothers to build chemistry, almost all lines play on intuitive. Even at World League level, most teams just put intuitive and be done with it.

There are two reasons tactics aren't widely used:
1) intuitive works just fine (most teams that won the major titles over the last years used intuitive), and there isn't any tactic to counter intuitive. Intuitive even has a small edge defensively over any line playing any 100% chemistry tactic.
2) you have to build up chemistry with the same players playing in a line, while some level of flexibility by swapping players is preferred. It's downright impossible for a NT coach to get to 100% chemistry within his two season run even when not changing anything to the lineup.

I have given up on the idea that we ever get real working tactics (for example checking meaning you actually dont try to score, shots from the blue line defenders actually getting more shots, etc), but two simple changes to the current implementation would mean a lot more tactical diversity.

Change A: remove intuitive from the available tactics
If intuitive is removed teams are forced to play a certain tactic, thus all teams can get countered by tactics, meaning you actually have to play against your opponent more and have to try to outsmart him.

Change B: chemistry is always instantly maxed out to the maximum possible chemistry for that line/tactic
If chemistry is not incrementally increased anymore but instantly maxed out, you could try to outsmart your opponent per individual game with more options. It would mean being able to select players into the lineup based on their special skills for a certain tactic, making for example pressing suddenly possible against someone who tends to play shots from the blue line.

Thoughts? Nah no need, icko doesn't bother anymore anyway. :)

Ice Shaman
22:52:08, 26.10.18

As an NT manager for a small country, and therefore having a smaller pool of talent available, I believe tactics is a major reason we tend to outperform our size. We are being rewarded for our long-term planning and commitment to lines, in the sense that our team does better than I believe it would do with purely intuitive lines.

My understanding is that the advantage for any tactic is that it might "proc" a goal-scoring opportunity. And that the additional advantage of one tactic in counting another is that it prevents the countered tactic from "proccing". Intuitive, then, gets a smaller chance to proc with no chance at a counter.

With that point of view and understanding in mind, I'd prefer a change more like

a) Do not change the time to build chemistry. Granted, I may be one of the few who puts in the effort, and I may be as frustrated as anyone with the time it takes, but it's one of the few longer-term mechanics we have, and that's a good thing. If anything, the reward should scale at the higher end.

b) Keep intuitive, but allow every other tactic to be its counter. In other words, teams should be able to go the easy route and not bother with chemistry, but anyone who puts the effort should get an advantage against them.

I have other ideas for adding more to chemistry, rather than stripping it back, but I'd be happy with just the one change above to encourage more active managing.

03:59:35, 27.10.18

Ice Shaman 22:52:08, 26.10.18
My understanding is that the advantage for any tactic is that it might "proc" a goal-scoring opportunity. And that the additional advantage of one tactic in counting another is that it prevents the countered tactic from "proccing". Intuitive, then, gets a smaller chance to proc with no chance at a counter.


Chemistry is needed for added scoring chance, aka only with tactics, intuitive can't make tactics goals ever.

I once complained to icko how playing against intuitive seems to often shut down all tactics goals and it's not fair that it's countering every other tactic. Response was just "it doesn't work like that". So still I got no idea what the "small advantage to everything else" is then, but it's not countering.

Ice Shaman
06:50:45, 27.10.18

thanks for the clarification. perhaps the "small advantage to everything else" is multiplying out to be much more significant since training was increased and Q-skill caps were raised

04:06:00, 28.10.18

Ice Shaman 06:50:45, 27.10.18 thanks for the clarification. perhaps the "small advantage to everything else" is multiplying out to be much more significant since training was increased and Q-skill caps were raised

It was years back since I asked about it, but could be like refuced said "small edge defensively" as tactics are a small advantage offensively (goals). If intuitive is preventing goal scoring positions that would also lower tactics goal amounts, even if not countering.

Likely thou the attribute cap limit raise and bigger facilities mean players are better faster and end up way better, meaning pure skill is overpowering tactics and intuitive ends up being a positive with no negatives.

refused
11:46:10, 28.10.18

With all due respect for small countries, I don't think we should keep things the same way so that the really small minority can get an advantage of the situation that none of the bigger countries can use tactics right now. If the bigger countries don't perform the managers get boo'ed out immediately, so building up tactics is never an option to them. Is that more fair than my solution?

refused
11:49:41, 28.10.18

What I want (and think HA needs to spice things up) is more tactical diversity for -all- teams.

Ice Shaman
22:42:02, 28.10.18

Sorry, I didnt mean to say we keep it because a small country uses it. rather, I was demonstrating through example that there is (or, perhaps, was) an advantage to be had with chemistry. But, like OnBoard describes, changes have made intuitive's advantages better.

I think we can all agree that it needs to change.

What you are suggest, refused, by making "chemistry instant" is really just getting rid of chemistry altogether - instead, we'd just have a "tactics" system. That's fine, as one solution.

Personally, I would prefer a tactical system that's still tied to chemistry - that is, a system that rewards longer term planning and investment.

If the rewards were worth it, or at least the intuitive advantages weren't so superior, then even the large countries (with deep pools of top talent) would want to use it.

In a game that has fairly limited management options, I'd hate to throw one out to solve a problem that could be adjusted directly

refused
00:05:48, 29.10.18

Then I would remove the coupling between chemistry and tactics, and see them as two different systems to have influence on a result. Then a NT or team playing at a high level can use their tactical options freely, while weighing the advantages and disadvantages of pursuing chemistry.

01:40:00, 29.10.18

One simplish solution would be to double the rate chemistry is gained, so it doesn't take whole season to do it. Or to wait couple weeks to get chemistry back when you bought one new player to a line.

Ice Shaman
05:43:02, 29.10.18

refused 00:05:48, 29.10.18 Then I would remove the coupling between chemistry and tactics, and see them as two different systems to have influence on a result. Then a NT or team playing at a high level can use their tactical options freely, while weighing the advantages and disadvantages of pursuing chemistry.

that's a cool idea. especially if tactics were to be differentiated as you said in your first post.

08:19:58, 29.10.18

I've being asking Icko to cut off intuitive for many years. The last time was after the season 69, when the British NT reached the final without the coach logged in. You can guess, what Icko answered.

starsnostars
14:03:36, 29.10.18

I'm not a fan of intuitive myself and I do think a change is needed and while I'll welcome a simple "fix" like removing intuitive I think the whole system needs to be overhauled and improved.

I started typing out a huge post about the implementation of a new facility, coaching department, that among a few other features determined the rate of chemistry gain and overall effectiveness of tactics but deleted it as I thought it was going increasingly off-topic.


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