Sign into the game





 Big loyalty problem
 Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6
20:57:27, 04.03.21

A lower amount of cash wouldn't help. I would simply spend it in players and sell them when I ever need some extra money. Sure it cost more salary, but a good manager make a profit with the transfers anyway.
The managers who spend more time in the game and be more clever will always end up with a load of money and the best players. Whatever system you make, they stay on the top.

And yeah it used to be 10 and is now 12 bilions.

islander1
23:03:26, 04.03.21

William 20:57:27, 04.03.21 it cost more salary, but a good manager make a profit with the transfers anyway.
The managers who spend more time in the game and be more clever will always end up with a load of money and the best players. Whatever system you make, they stay on the top.

And yeah it used to be 10 and is now 12 bilions.


You make a fair point in that some teams will always be managed better financially, however if you drop the limit to say 6 billion, that automatically makes every single player less expensive - thus making the playing field more level.

Pavel Burek
07:29:27, 05.03.21

Back to the loyalty. :) That loyalty change that all the best players doesn't change anything in terms of this. It actually makes it easier for top teams, because they just don't buy top youngsters with -3 loyalty, but buy them later, at 24 or something, when a lot of them have higher loyalty, because their "poor" managers spent 500 millions and increased it, but now they don't have money and have to sell him...

Logically thinking, random loyalty would make it easier for starters.

islander1
15:51:34, 05.03.21

OK, back on discussion. Real world example. Here's my U23 team. Every player who is from USA is a youth pull.
https://imgur.com/a/Wg2O7Vy

14 players.

+3: 1 player
+2: 1 player
+1: 1 player
-1: 1 player
-2: 2 players
-3: 6 players
unknown but - : 2 players

This is no way to make the game fair to the players who aren't "whales".

starsnostars
21:56:51, 05.03.21

While I think it makes more sense for top players to lean (maybe even heaviliy lean) towards -3 loyalty. It's still disheartening seeing top pulls and prospects frequently reveal a -3 loyalty when they turn 18 and I'm not sure if there is a way to make it more fair and accessible for everyone without re-designing the whole system.

A simple change I would like to see without do that. Guarantee + loyalty for drafted players. It makes sense. These are players you are actively choosing for your team so in that sense they should look upon your team favourably and that should translate into being more loyal. Additionally the whole draft thing needs more of an incentive. Drafting well requires the use of quite a bit of scouting picks and potentially investing a lot of time and right now I don't think you're really awarded for that effort. A guarantee plus loyalty player would make that a little more worthwhile.

gbagrami|TR
23:34:00, 05.03.21

I second that!

islander1
06:43:43, 06.03.21

to add onto stars's idea, perhaps every time a player is sold, his base loyalty goes down one.
So if you get a youth pull and he starts +2, when you sell him he goes to +1.

This will eliminate buying +3 guys, but other than that I think it's good on balance for promoting building from within.

I mean the last 2 seasons my A team hasn't even bothered drafting. I won't this year, either.
I get plenty of players, they are all just -2 and -3's so it dings my score while not REALLY providing much of value.

08:56:57, 06.03.21

Maybe loyality can be used better if we add sportive reasons to it.

A youthpull player starts to be loyal to your team, he is happy because he got a contract and is now playing in the team he dreamed of since he got his first skates. So all youthplayers starts with +1 loyality. And maybe big fans can start higher. So far so good but you would have to keep him happy by giving him enough matches otherwise his loyality will start to drop.

Say you have a new Wayne Gretzky in your team. Good for you. But you are playing in 5th division. Do you think new Wayne is happy when he is playing all matches? Maybe but he would still want to leave your team for sportive reasons and get to a team on a higher level. But while he has a contract he is stuck to your team. So in such a case the loyality will drop each season. It will finaly hit the -3. And guess what, the next time his contract is going to expire he is going to the market als UFA, regardless his age.

If your team is playing on the right level your player is ok with that. He is now happy and he has no reason to leave your team. His loyality might be increasing now to +3. But if he doesn't play enough matches his loyality starts dropping. And again loy-3 = UFA at the end of the contract.

So basicly there can be two reasons why loyality drops. A lack of icetime or a player that has to move up to a higher league.

If we kan agree upon this as a good way to look at loyality we can start to think how this would work in HA.

Pavel Burek
10:46:20, 06.03.21

I'm so happy that this debate evolved like that. We can see that there are a lot of managers who think that this loyalty system right now is not good. And there were also a lot of ideas how to improve it. I personally like that of @starsnostars and also of @islander1, because draft is another problem in the last few seasons, because the best players in my league on the draft are players with 95/max-2, but if you aren't in top 3 teams, you get 90/max-2 or max-3. But let's save this for another time and for another topic, but definitely better loyalty for draft players can make it better, sure. :)

With @William idea I can't agree, because I think that it will make the thing even worse in the terms of making it easier for starters and low league managers, especially that drop of loyatly because a player has to move up to higher league.

Marleau
03:11:23, 08.03.21

I am SO happy with this discussion and everyone looking at solutions!!!!! I brought it up earlier but happy the discussion is evolving. How can we now make sure these recommendation are looked at by the developer?

How about having every player start with -3 loyalty. Both youth players and players who switch team. Then based on ice time they gradually increase. Maybe the loyalty only decreases if a player is put on the market but no-one buys him. We could also include the impact of team performance, etc, but I do not think that, even though maybe more realistic, it is needed and would make it unnecessarily complicated (also to implement the change).

Concerning the draft order, maybe we look at using the league position end of season to decide that. Like in the NHL, the weaker teams get the higher picks. We would only need to think of something for teams being promoted/relegated.

What would also be really cool is to see if we can build a system where young SUPER players can make the 1st team quicker and also contribute. For instance have some top talent (like McDavid) with very high initial AI, but a lower Q so they will develop less in their career as they already have a high starting point. Then on the other hand we can have talents that do not have an initial high AI but due to their high Q and P they will become top players later in their career (like the youth players are working currently).

Just some thoughts.

islander1
05:36:37, 08.03.21

Marleau 03:11:23, 08.03.21 Q so they will develop less in their career as they already have a high starting point. Then on the other hand we can have talents that do not have an initial high AI but due to their high Q and P they will become top players later in their career (like the youth players are working currently).

Just some thoughts.



Well, you have to start with the one developer, icko, being fiscally motivated to make meaningful changes.

I'm a former TR and I've spoken to him in years past. I'm not mad at him, if I were in his shoes I would be mindful of what makes me money and what doesn't. He may have a full time developer job that he has to commit to as well.

It's just difficult because we can come up with reasonable ideas, but ultimately there is one bottleneck, and it is his motivation and time.

07:20:06, 08.03.21

Marleau 03:11:23, 08.03.21 How about having every player start with -3 loyalty. Both youth players and players who switch team. Then based on ice time they gradually increase..

We have another variable that works like this: Satisfaction.

Marleau 03:11:23, 08.03.21 Maybe the loyalty only decreases if a player is put on the market but no-one buys him..

There is no logic here. If nobody wants him, his loyalty should increase, since the player should be glad that at least his own team still pays him some salary and didn't stop his career...

islander1
16:11:15, 16.03.21

This player is 95/82/-3 and was worth 50k.
https://www.hockeyarena.net/en/index.php?p=public_player_info.inc&id=43298074

Another -3 from one of my youth schools. Something has to improve. You get a good player and it's completely worthless.

jetsdude|HA
16:13:48, 16.03.21

he's a 65% overall.

Giraffoden
17:51:55, 16.03.21

And if he is 95/max, I would argue, that you have put him on the market at a to low price.

18:10:16, 16.03.21

islander1 16:11:15, 16.03.21 This player is 95/82/-3 and was worth 50k.
<a href="https://www.hockeyarena.net/public_redirect.php?https://www.hockeyarena.net/en/index.php?p=public_player_info.inc&amp;id=43298074" target="_blank">https://www.hockeyarena.net/en/index.php?p=public_player_info.inc&amp;id=43298074</a>

Another -3 from one of my youth schools. Something has to improve. You get a good player and it's completely worthless.


did you scout this player before or after he was sold ? and of course :) why u gave or choose such a lowe starting price ? :) i think without advertising, right ? ... everyone wants to buy good player for almost zero :) on the part of the buyer it is called a good deal :)

18:11:28, 16.03.21

*low

islander1
22:47:09, 16.03.21

Trsto 18:10:16, 16.03.21 it's completely worthless.

did you scout this player before or after he was sold ? and of course :) why u gave or choose such a lowe starting price ? :) i think without advertising, right ? ... everyone wants to buy good player for almost zero :) on the part of the buyer it is called a good deal :)


He was my guy, of course he was scouted. I listed him on the transfer forum but as jetsdude does note - he's an 18 year old straight out of school.

So a worthless players coming out at 18, with a worthless -3 loyalty, means my youth school score ticks up.

What do you honestly think that guy's actual value is, Trsto? I am curious.


 Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6